Jesse Liberty - Silverlight Geek

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Tip of the Day: How To Answer: Will This Work In Silverlight 2.0?

I'm beginning to receive a lot of email about what is coming in Silverlight 2.0. Today's was pretty typical, so I thought I'd post the questions and answers (without revealing anything specific about this writer's application), as  a guide to the kind of response you can expect.  (Published early today to get an answer to this reader!)

Please note, the best place for this kind of question is our Forum, where you'll get a far faster and more comprehensive answer; but I do understand why some folks write directly.

Forums

Here is the (slightly edited) letter with my response

I am the architect [responsible for redoing the UI of a large calculator/spreadsheet that is now in ASP.NET and that goes back to the server for all its calculations. I'd like to consider Silverlight rather than AJAX to move the calculations to the client, with the main benefit being managed code]...

If we rebuild the application in Silverlight (assuming 2.0 with a 2009 go live) would we be able to use the existing c# libraries built out for validation and calculation without reworking them? ... plug-in and [access our rules on the client. This would eliminate a lot of round trips and network traffic.]

I want to give you all the information I can, but for the moment I have to give you somewhat  less information than will be available once we release Silverlight 2, which we will do very soon. The release date remains 1st Quarter of this year for Beta 1 (that is, no later than March 31). I'm willing to go out on a limb and say we're working hard to come in a bit early.

So I'm going to ask that you re-send this question to me after we release, if that is okay. In the meantime, I’ll do some research to see if I’m at Liberty™ to say more.

The specifics of what will be in Silverlight 2 has not been announced, though some general guidelines have been written about here.  We have said, for example, that we’ll support C#, and that we’ll support a significant subset of the CLR.

Let's assume we wanted to get something done ....today  [using Silverlight 1.0 for now] Could I put a hidden Silverlight component on the page that encapsulates the c# libraries from the server? Then I could simply swap out the Ajax post-backs on each existing field for a js call to the Silverlight engine and update the fields accordingly.

You could certainly create a hidden Silverlight 1.0 control on your page.  It  in turn, could certainly interact with a web service and/or do work on the client side. And further, you could later swap this out and replace it with a more powerful Silverlight 2 control. 

On the other hand, I'm not convinced this is a big win; because by the time you have your 1.0 component working 2.0 will be ready and they will work quite differently.  For example, Scott's blog entry notes that Silverlight 2 will support "two-way data-binding support" -

I don't think I'm giving away anything to say that we'll have extensive data support; I'd hate to see you build an infrastructure only to throw it away. Frankly, I think it would be a bigger "win" to spend your time, for example, reading chapter 5 in Programming WPF -- while the details in Silverlight 2 may be slightly different, Silverlight 2 is so closely related this will be time very well spent. See this Tip of the Day for more.

As a side question, if all I was doing was building a rules/calculator engine in Silverlight I would assume that all things being equal it would run faster and have a smaller bandwidth footprint than an equivalent js class. Is this the case?

There is no question that if you build such an engine in C# vs. .js it will be smaller and far faster.

So basically, am I on the correct track with this? I don't want to misuse the new Silverlight technology as my predecessor did when they misused Ajax.

Sounds to me like you are very much on track. AJAX is great, and has all sorts of advantages, but you seem to value performance very highly and Silverlight 2.0's huge advantage for you will be the ability to code with C# and the CLR.

I can assure you that as we announce Silverlight 2.0 we’ll be providing a great deal of documentation and support through Silverlight.net I wish I could say more today; I’m not trying to be coy; but we want to make sure that we deliver on what we say and we do so with a unified and coherent voice. That will be very soon.

If I learn more about your specific questions, I will certainly send you a private email. In the meantime, thanks for your patience.


A side note to readers of Tip of the Day: Due to circumstances, Tip of the Day will be spotty for a while; probably off the air for a few days, and less frequent than I'd like leading up to Mix. I promise to make it up by a huge outpouring of Tips starting after my incredibly ill-timed vacation ends  on March 18. At that point, you can expect no fewer than 5 Tips of the Day per week through the summer.

Comments

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# February 14, 2008 9:46 AM

technology » Blog Archive » Tip of the Day: How To Answer: Will This Work In Silverlight 2.0? said:

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# February 14, 2008 10:06 AM

BenHayat said:

How about asking a question that is not directly related to SL features?

It's about us,those who are SL developers (especially the consultants), who are going to be on the front line of selling (or the battle of selling) the idea of using SL v.s. Flash. As the matter of fact, the battle has already begun.

Yesterday, I was with a prospect that I know his application is perfect for SL (from technical point of view) and I was giving him info (as much as I have (fairly little about 2.0)), and his comments were, why should I have you do it in band new SL, where I can have someone else do it in established Flash.

From his perspective, who doesn't know all about the technical benefits of SL over flash, how am I convince new clients to use SL over flash?

Could MSFT provide a guideline or series of Pros and Cons for us to us as ammunition?

Remember, I'm the one at the very front line...

Thanks Jesse!

..Ben

# February 14, 2008 1:59 PM

wisecarver said:

I'm sure Jesse can whip up a nice list of Pros but as someone else on the front line promoting Silverlight I'd like to point out the legal benefits. My Flash development came to a halt when Microsoft was threatened with that ridiculous embedded content lawsuit.

I couldn't be happier with Silverlight and Microsoft.

</2.Cents>

# February 14, 2008 4:08 PM

Community Blogs said:

Jesse Liberty takes a few shots at answering some SL2.0 questions, at least with things he&#39;s At Liberty

# February 14, 2008 6:01 PM

jesseliberty said:

>>how am I convince new clients to use SL over flash?

Could MSFT provide a guideline or series of Pros and Cons for us to us as ammunition?

Remember, I'm the one at the very front line...<<

Yes, perfectly understandable and reasonable, and I think we are very much in touch with how frustrating and difficult it is not having the list of features and advantages to answer those questions.  

I'm not in marketing, so I can't give a great official answer, but I think I can understand how a company might decide to get things finished and then set it loose in a planned way so that when you have those answers they are right, complete and you are equipped with a real working beta with all the tools you need to get started, rather than promises, vaporware and vague (mis)information.

Now, we can go back and forth about the advantages about middle-ground and does this or that solution really require a list of features, etc. but as I say, I'm not in marketing. And My job is not to "sell" Silverlight (though of coursse I hope people will like it as I do). My job is to help developers get the tools and information they need to use it well; and I'm as eager as you are to get going with that (and am working nights and weekends to be ready when we let 'er loose).

Best I can do for now.

-j

# February 14, 2008 9:42 PM

BenHayat said:

>>Best I can do for now.<<

I know and I wasn't really asking any direct feature list per se, but hopefully later on after release, MSFT can help their developers to overcome this battle that we are going to face against those who are going to push flash.

My point wasn't selling Silverlight to developers, but helping developers to sell Silverlight solutions to clients. I'm already sold, otherwise I wouldn't be here, but I need to get my ducks in row to combat this up coming situations where I'll come across Flash v.s. Silverlight. I was just bringing this point up, so you could please forward the message to the right authorities.

Thanks!

..Ben

# February 14, 2008 10:12 PM

jesseliberty said:

>> I need to get my ducks in row to combat this up coming situations where I'll come across Flash v.s. Silverlight. I was just bringing this point up, so you could please forward the message to the right authorities.<<

That I Can Do.  :-)

-j

# February 14, 2008 10:26 PM

lixin123 said:

From my understanding, besides so many great features that Silverlight 2.0 will offer, the big difference between Silverlight 2.0 and Flash is the productivity in software development.

I am very sure that you can have your solutions much more quickly delivered to your clients if you use Silverlight 2.0 instead of Flash.

On my current work position I will recommend Silverlight 2.0 applications to those who are working on Intranet as the first step, and then extend it to those on Internet. I think that's a good strategy to gradually get Silvelight more and more acceptable in the market.

My other thought is that we all need to be patient and let the Silverlight guys concentrate on their work. No need to be worried and we will finally win more back in the market after we have Silverlight 2.0.

# February 15, 2008 9:14 AM

BenHayat said:

Thanks lixin123 for your Flash input!

I had recently asked ScottGu for some Silverlight Love and that's what he had to say: :-)

Lots of Silverlight love coming soon.... :-)

Thanks,

Scott

# February 15, 2008 4:39 PM